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Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

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WhatAboutBob
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Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

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FRANKENSTEIN-19 WATER ONLY ORGANIC SUPERSOIL w/ LAB TESTING
Dedicated to: Chat (you know who you are -all you beautiful people)

Here's the Recipe...

FRANKENSTEIN-19
(Per cubic yard of base mix)

2.5 lbs Kelp Meal (1-0.1-2)
7.5 lbs Alfalfa Meal (2-1-2)
1.25 lbs Crab Meal (4-3-0)
1 lb Granular Poultry Manure (5-3-2)
6.25 lbs Bone Meal (4-12-0)
2.5 lbs Seabird Guano (0-11-0)
9 lbs Soft Rock Phosphate (0-3-0)
1.45 lbs Potassium Sulfate (0-0-54% K2O, 44.8% K)
1.25 lb Malted Barley Flour
5 lbs Azomite
2.5 lbs Glacier Rock Dust
15 lbs Basalt Dust
15.5 lbs Gypsum
5 lbs Oyster Shell Meal
5 lbs Wollastonite W30
20 grams Iron Sulfate
15 grams Manganese Sulfate
5 grams Borax
7.5 grams Zinc Sulfate
10 grams Copper Sulfate

And if you are still interested, roll one up because here's the story....

I had lots of time off work this past year. I picked up gardening. Shout out to the YouTube #cannacommunity and the all Chat Rats that keep it Growing . FCP, Eagles Garden, Dude Grows, Tad at KIS, Smiley’s Organic Take Over, Chad’s Home Grow Show, gr420 Community Videos, 2x2 Tent Grower, Mr Canuck, Mr Grows It, and all the rest I forgot or have not yet discovered. The community has been extremely helpful for me as a new grower.

I wanted an organic, water only recipe to grow my plants. I wanted to transplant into this soil, veg for another 2-3 weeks then flip to flower. And a word of warning... I use soil, media, mix, soil-less media... interchangeably. For this post they all refer to a peat based potting medium. I tend to not use the term "living soil" because I don't know jack about microbes yet. I'm focusing on the chemistry first.

I started using something like a SubCool Mix, then got the stuff for a Coot’s Mix, then read the Intelligent Gardener by Steve Solomon and parts of The Ideal Soil 2.0 by Micheal Estera. I got interested in soil testing. This mix has a bunch of ingredients and a bunch of influences. Too many. I know it could be simplified. It has lots of controversial inputs as well. It uses Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss and Animal Products and Guano. All of the inputs, as far as I know, are OMRI approved in some form or another. Some of the sulfates you might have to get creative with when interpreting how they can be used in certified organics. Using many bits from many different sources and due to the state of the world when I started this project, I called it Frankenstein-19. But I guess I am Frankenstein and this is my monster.

I want to share the experience I had with different iterations of the recipe. If you want to skip to the final recipe, it’s at the end. I’m not an experienced grower. Not even close. I’ve been growing for less than a year, but I figured that if I get the soil right, I have less of a chase to screw things up majorly. I haven’t even attempted to grow a plant in this soil. And just a heads up, the recipe I propose at the end has not yet been lab tested. However it should be "almost there," and I feel there can be valuable information learned from my experience. So I’ll share where I am at now, how I got here, and will continue update as I do more testing.

I have been working with a crop advisor who specializes in organic potting media for cannabis. He uses Logan Labs in Ohio, so this is all Logan Labs testing. He suggested 15 gallon pots so that is what I am working in and developing the recipe for. If going to work with an advisor, I would suggest going with someone who is familiar with growing cannabis in potting media and using the lab they are most familiar with. Different Labs publish different targets and an advisor’s targets might be completely different for different conditions or specific crops. Different labs may even have different calibrations where the same sample can read significantly different from one lab to another.


CONVERSIONS
The following are some of the conversions I used. I give all amendments in pounds per cubic yard base mix. For those who aren’t familiar with imperial units, conversions are just as simple as in the metric system. :lol:
:bang head:

7.5 gallons per cubic foot
27 cubic feet per cubic yard
202.5 gallons per cubic yard
16 cups per gallon
454 grams per pound

BASE MIX

20% EWC
I use what is always available from Home Depot. OMRI listed “Earthworm Castings Plant Plant Food.” 1.25 - 0 - 0 NPK with 1% Calcium. This stuff is about 1lb per quart, so a 6 pound bag will be about 1.5 gallons. It’s nice and black and I haven’t had any pest issues yet. Knock on Wood.

33% Pumice
I used 3/16” Pumice Stone, but now see there is ⅛” Stone available. I like the smaller stuff. This stuff is expensive if you have to have it shipped. Amazon had it for $28 for 3 gallons (closer to 2.5 “liquid” gallons when I measured it). Listed as 13lbs for the 3 gallons.

47% Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss
I got this from Ace Hardware. 3 cubic feet is $15 and they will ship to store for free local pickup. OMRI listed Black Gold Organic Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss

FRANKENSTEIN -vAlpha
I threw a bunch of ingredients together and sent it off for testing about a week later. The amounts were based off of other recipes I found online (mostly Coot's, with a little Subcool and some Solomon's COF) and other tid-bits of info I picked up here and there. I only mixed a small sample. Just a few quarts of media to see if I was anywhere close. And I ordered a soil audit from the crop advisor.

vAlpha RECIPE
(Per cubic yard of base mix)

5 lbs Seed Meal (6-1-2)
5 lbs Kelp Meal (Kelp4Less)
5 lbs Alfalfa Meal (2-1-2)
1.25 lbs Crab Meal (4-3-0)
1.25 lbs Malted Barley Flour
1.25 lbs Blood Meal (12-0-0)
1.25 lbs Bone Meal (6-8-0)
2.5 lbs Soft Rock Phosphate (0-3-0)
5 lbs Azomite (0-0-0.2)
2.5 lbs Glacier Rock Dust
15 lbs Basalt Dust
15 lbs Solution Grade Gypsum
5 lbs Oyster Shell Meal
5 lbs Wollastonite W30
12 grams BioAg T M - 7
0.24 lbs BioAg Ful-Humix

-You don’t need Wollastonite - can replace it with 0.9X Oyster Shell.
-You don’t need Oyster Shell - can replace it with 1X fine grade ag lime (with little to no mag)
-You don’t need 3 different rock dusts, and probably don’t need 22.5 pounds of it.
-You don’t need two different bone meals and two different seed meals (which will come up in later versions).
-You don’t need the BioAg products. I used them because I had just gotten a sample kit which they were sending out for a $10 shipping fee only.

The sample was mixed and then bagged up and shipped out to the lab about 1 week later.

vAlpha TEST RESULTS

TEC (M.E): 19.78
pH: 6.8
Org Matter: 22.26%
Sulfur: 596 ppm
P2O5 (M-3): 124 lbs/acre
Ca: 6336 lbs/acre
Mg: 345 lbs/acre
K: 370 lbs/acre
Na: 241 lbs/acre

% Base Saturation
Ca: 80.08%
Mg: 7.27%
K: 2.4%
Na: 2.65%
Other: 4.60%
ExH: 3.00%

Boron: 0.64 ppm
Iron: 193 ppm
Mn: 8 ppm
Copper: 0.51 ppm
Zinc: 2.26 ppm
Aluminum: 82 ppm
Ammonium: 9.6 ppm
Nitrate: 2.5 ppm
M Density: 0.40 grams / cubic cm

vAlpha SATURATED PASTE TEST
(% reported in Saturated Paste is based on meq/l, which I didn't reported here)

pH: 6.8
Soluble Salts: 975 ppm
Cl: 73 ppm
Bicarbonate: 146 ppm
Sulfur: 81.23 ppm
Phosphorus: 0.76 ppm
Calcium: 177.90 ppm (58.38%)
Magnesium: 39.47 ppm (21.59%)
Potassium: 53.03 ppm (9.04%)
Sodium: 38.51 ppm (10.99%)
Boron: 0.07 ppm
Iron: 1.67 ppm
Manganese: 0.48 ppm
Copper: <0.02 ppm
Zinc: <0.02 ppm
Aluminum: 0.99 ppm

vAlpha SOIL AUDIT

I got a soil audit and amended the recipe per the recommendations.
The recommendation included the addition of products to increase Ca, K, P, and N*.
It was recommended to reduce my kelp usage in an attempt to lower the Na.
So I amended the original recipe. I also added some trace minerals to get them a little closer to target.

*Nitrate on the test was low, but Ammonium was still showing up in a significant amount. The media was still cooking when I sent it off for testing. I believe this caused issues with the N in the next version. The issue could have also come from imperfect mixing, imperfect sampling, or imperfect testing procedures. Nitrogen, as you will see, has been difficult for me to try to get dialed in. Notice I said "try." I still don't have it figured out. If we were playing poker, N's would be wild. In the future I will wait at least 4 weeks after mixing a new batch before sampling for testing.


FRANKENSTEIN -vBeta
I mixed up about 27 gallons of media this time. This was mixed and allowed to "cook" for 4 weeks before sampling for testing.. This time I got the "complete test plus extras" package, so it included Co, Mo, Si, Se, and EC.

vBeta RECIPE
(Per cubic yard of base mix)

5 lbs Seed Meal (6-1-2)
1 lbs Seed Meal (6-2-1)
2.5 lbs Kelp Meal
7.5 lbs Alfalfa Meal (2-1-2)
1.25 lbs Crab Meal (4-3-0)
1 lb Granular Poultry Manure (5-3-2)
1.25 lbs Malted Barley Flour
1.25 lbs Blood Meal (12-0-0)
1.25 lbs Bone Meal (6-8-0)
5.00 lbs Bone Meal (4-12-0)
5.75 lbs Soft Rock Phosphate
0.75 lbs Potassium Sulfate (0-0-54)
5 lbs Azomite
2.5 lbs Glacier Rock Dust
15 lbs Basalt Dust
15.5 lbs Gypsum
5 lbs Oyster Shell Meal
5 lbs Wollastonite W30
32 grams Bio-Ag Ful-Humix
12 grams Bio-Ag TM-7
14.5 grams Manganese Sulfate
4.2 grams Borax
4.8 grams Zinc Sulfate
6.5 grams Copper Sulfate

-I cut the amount of kelp meal in half to see if testing would show lower amounts of Na.
-I reduced the amount of BioAg Ful-Humix, because it is not a product I plan to use long term as a soil amendment.
-I increased the alfalfa meal, seed meal, bone meal, soft rock phosphate, and gypsum.
-I added Poultry Manure and Potassium Sulfate.
-I added "what I hoped to be" safe amounts of Borax, Mn Sulfate, Zn Sulfate, and Cu Sulfate.

The sample was mixed and then bagged up and shipped out to the lab about 4 weeks later.


vBeta TEST RESULTS

TEC (M.E): 45.45
pH: 6.5
Organic Matter 35.90%
Sulfur: 1,719 ppm
P2O5 (M-3): 897 lbs/acre
Ca: 13,998 lbs/acre
Mg: 631 lbs/acre
K: 1,252 lbs/acre
Na: 272 lbs/acre

% Base Saturation
Ca: 76.99%
Mg: 5.78%
K: 3.53%
Na: 1.30%
Other: 4.90%
ExH: 7.50%

Boron: 0.88 ppm
Iron: 242 ppm
Manganese: 17 ppm
Copper: 2.65 ppm
Zinc: 9.52 ppm
Aluminum: 220 ppm
Cobalt: 0.143 ppm
Molybdenum: 0.64 ppm
Ammonium: 0.9 ppm
Nitrate: 356.7 ppm
Selenium: 0.38 ppm
Silicon: 11.8 ppm
ENR: 130 lbs N per acre
EC: 2.1 mmhos/cm
M Density: 0.29 grams / cubic cm

vBeta SATURATED PASTE TEST
(% reported in Saturated Paste is based on meq/l, which I didn't reported here)

pH: 6.5
Soluble Salts: 1294 ppm
Cl: 65 ppm
Bicarbonate: 116 ppm
Sulfur: 83.15 ppm
Phosphorus: 0.75 ppm
Calcium: 263.50 ppm (65.20%)
Magnesium: 49.50 ppm (20.41%)
Potassium: 78.89 ppm (10.14%)
Sodium: 19.71 ppm (4.24%)
Boron: 0.21 ppm
Iron: 0.37 ppm
Manganese: 0.25 ppm
Copper: <0.02 ppm
Zinc: <0.02 ppm
Aluminum: 0.31 ppm

vBeta SOIL AUDIT

-pH is great.
-TEC is really high due to LOTS of Ca showing up on M-3 but not a concern b/c pH and soluble Ca are good
-Soluble Phosphorous is OK, but on the low end
-Soluble Ca is great (paste test)
-Magnesium is higher than ideal but not a concern
-K is great for a Veg Mix, It needs to increase for a Flowering Mix
-Na is very low, which is excellent
-Fe is OK, but can increase
-Boron is Great
-Manganese is really good
-Zn is good
-Cu could go up a bit
-Nitrate is REALLY HIGH. Double the 175 ppm target. This may or may not cause issues (depending on cultivar sensitivity).

So instead of just adding some P, K, Fe, and Cu - I have to figure out how to cut N in half.
I added up the total pounds of Nitrogen per yard of each input.

6 lbs of seed meal with 6% N adds 0.36 lbs of Nitrogen.
1.25 lb of blood meal with 12% N adds 0.15 lbs Nitrogen.
6.25 lbs of bone meal with 4% N adds 0.25 lbs of Nitrogen.
7.5 lbs of alfalfa meal with 2% N adds 0.15 lbs of Nitrogen.
1 lb of poultry manure with 5% N adds 0.05 lbs of Nitrogen.
1.25 lbs of crab meal with 4% N adds 0.05 lbs of Nitrogen.
2.5 lbs of kelp meal with a ~1% N adds 0.025lbs of Nitrogen.

These inputs add up to about 1 lb of Nitrogen per cubic yard. Removing 100% of the Seed Meal and 100% of the Blood Meal reduces total N from the amendments to about 0.5 lbs per yard. My Nitrate ppm numbers were double the target. Hopefully getting rid of the Seed Meal and Blood Meal will get Nitrate in a better range. I adjusted the recipe based on the soil audit and here is where I am at today.

FRANKENSTEIN-19

The proposed recipe below is the same as one at the top of the post. It has never been tested, but based on my very limited experience should be a fairly decent starting point as far as recipes go. The amount of nitrogen might be low, or might be right on point. If it is low, you can choose your own N source to supplement. Or you can add N inputs over time as top dressing, instead of adding all of it during pre-planting. I’m fairly confident (based on the advisor’s advice) that besides N, the rest of the minerals should be sufficient and in good balance. N is still a wild card to me. In the ‘not so distant’ future, I will mix up this exact recipe, wait 4 weeks, then submit for testing to see if Nitrate shows up in the target range. I also want to check to see if my mixing, my sampling, and the lab’s testing give somewhat repeatable results.

I suggest allowing this recipe to “cook” for 4 weeks after mixing a new batch, then send a sample for testing to see where you stand as far as Nitrogen goes. A sample taken too quickly after initial mixing will make estimating future Nitrate more difficult. 150 - 200 ppm of Nitrate is what I am hoping to see on a Logan Test when a sample is taken four or more weeks after initial mixing. And because you will most likely be using different sources, you may want to hold off on the trace elements until you get a laboratory test. You can always add later, it’s more difficult to remove if you overshoot. I reduced the amounts of trace minerals in the recipe in an attempt to prevent people over doing it. The amounts in the recipe should be fairly safe and enough to get the trace elements on the board at least, but without testing - you may have too much of something already. Some of these become toxic at less than 8 ppm in the soil.

FRANKENSTEIN-19 RECIPE
(Per cubic yard of base mix)


2.5 lbs Kelp Meal (1-0.1-2)
7.5 lbs Alfalfa Meal (2-1-2)
1.25 lbs Crab Meal (4-3-0)
1 lb Granular Poultry Manure (5-3-2)
6.25 lbs Bone Meal (4-12-0)
2.5 lbs Seabird Guano (0-11-0)
9 lbs Soft Rock Phosphate (0-3-0)
1.45 lbs Potassium Sulfate (0-0-54% K2O, 44.8% K)
1.25 lb Malted Barley Flour
5 lbs Azomite
2.5 lbs Glacier Rock Dust
15 lbs Basalt Dust
15.5 lbs Gypsum
5 lbs Oyster Shell Meal
5 lbs Wollastonite W30
20 grams Iron Sulfate
15 grams Manganese Sulfate
5 grams Borax
7.5 grams Zinc Sulfate
10 grams Copper Sulfate

Mix, allow to cook for 4 weeks, then submit a sample for testing to determine Nitrate levels.


Cheers Growmies,
Bob
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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by Chad.Westport »

Damn WhataboutBob, that is one of the best first posts ever! Good to see you in here, this place is awesome. This post is definitely part of the awesome, thanks for sharing dude :Stoned:
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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by WhatAboutBob »

:thanks: Chad,

I told Ian from Chat that I would post the recipe and story somewhere and then I saw the episode where gr420 talked about the forum and wanting to try an organic soil. So I joined up here and posted it. I just wanted to give a little back to the community that helped me so much.

Even though it isn't completely dialed in, it seems pretty well balanced. If I ignore the Nitrogen elephant; And the last additions [of low N/high P guano, SRP, and K Sulfate] increase the soluble P and K how I hope they do - the numbers will be great for a Flowering Mix. I know numbers on a sheet of paper do not grow a plant, but knowing that the soil should have all it needs and in good balance is a good starting point.

I think there is plenty of useful information here. I haven't seen any other recipes that came with all the nerdy numbers I like. I'd like to do more testing to make sure the results are somewhat repeatable.

I also mixed up a "light" mix with less of each amendment. The intention was to have a Vegetative Mix with a lower EC and less K. That mix should have about 50-60% of the total added N from the inputs. I do have test results for this light mix (and a soil audit), but the sample was taken about a week after mixing. I will test the same batch in another few weeks to compare numbers (especially Nitrate and Ammonium). The crop advisor expects the N will still end up low, but we were fooled before. I used a bunch of N sources and organic inputs with unknown C:N ratios. That is why I call N the wild card.

Sneak Peak
vLight
Ammonium: 16.2 ppm
Nitrate: 9 ppm

If you look back, vAlpla tested at 9.6ppm Ammonium and 2.5 ppm Nitrate. We added more N and ended up shooting the Moon on vBeta. We won all the Nitrates and the Queen of Spades. These were two different batches (Alpha and Beta). The original Alpha sample was not amended. The recipe was amended and a new batch was made. So that is an extra layer of variables. The next test on vLight will be the actual batch that was previously tested to reduce variables.

So stay tuned as I as try to get to the bottom of the Nitrogen mystery. There's no way us blasted, meddling kids and our dog will let Nitrogen get away this.


And BTW
The product I used was labeled as Oyster Shell Powder, don't know why I put Meal. Must have been hungry.
The Gypsum was solution grade.
If I can go back and edit the post, I haven't yet figured out how.
Last edited by WhatAboutBob on Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by GMO »

Well that was a bit of an entrance!!!

amazing information buddy and a great way to share the info too

thanks for taking the time to join up and share dude. very cool
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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by Chad.Westport »

I can tell you and GMO are going to become friends very quickly :Stoned: worms!

I'm glad you chose here to post it up WhatAboutBob..... but you've set the bar high on the first date, I can't wait to see what you post for our second :rofl:
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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by Mrs Beefheart »

Welcome along to the growroom
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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by WhatAboutBob »

FRANKENSTEIN vLight
Before shipping the vBeta sample off for testing, I mixed up 9 gallons of a “lighter” mix intended for Veg. I reduced all inputs by 33-60%. I want less K in veg. Ca and K are antagonistic so I want to load up Ca during veg.

I also dropped the EWC in the base mix down to 12-15%, so CSPM went up to 52-55%, and aeration stayed at 33%.

vLightAlpha RECIPE
(per cubic yard of media)
* % of amendment used compared to Flowering vBeta Recipe.

2.75 lbs Seed Meal (6-1-2) *55%
0.55 lbs Seed Meal (6-2-1) *55%
1.25 lbs Kelp Meal (kelp4less) *50%
3.75 lbs Alfalfa Meal (2-1-2) *50%
0.72 lbs Crab Meal (4-3-0) *58%
0.55 lb Granular Poultry Manure (5-3-2) *55%
0.84 lbs Malted Barley Flour -67%
0.63 lbs Blood Meal (12-0-0) -50%
0.78 lbs Bone Meal (6-8-0) -63%
3.35 lbs Bone Meal (4-12-0) -67%
3.85 lbs Soft Rock Phosphate -67%
0.30 lbs Potassium Sulfate (0-0-54) *40%
3 lbs Azomite *60%
1.38 lbs Glacier Rock Dust *55%
10.05 lbs Basalt Dust *67%
9.2 lbs Gypsum (solution grade) *59%
2.88 lbs Oyster Shell Powder *58%
2.88 lbs Wollastonite W30 *58%
32 grams Bio-Ag Ful-Humix *100%
12 grams Bio-Ag TM-7 *100%
14.5 grams Manganese Sulfate *100%
4.2 grams Borax *100%
4.8 grams Zinc Sulfate *100%
6.5 grams Copper Sulfate*100%

-Adding the total Nitrogen from amendments per cubic yard gives about 0.60 lbs N. This is ~60% of the amount in Flowering vBeta.

-The sample was mixed about a week before bagging and sending to the lab. It got sent with the Flowering vBeta sample (which had been cooking for about 1 month). I did not know it at the time, but I should have waited a few more weeks before sending off for testing for more accurate N numbers.

vLightAlpha Test Results
TEC (M.E): 21.49
pH: 6.6
Organic Matter 38.18%
Sulfur: 689 ppm
P2O5 (M-3): 431 lbs/acre
Ca: 6,636 lbs/acre
Mg: 343 lbs/acre
K: 558 lbs/acre
Na: 186 lbs/acre

% Base Saturation
Ca: 77.19%
Mg: 6.65%
K: 3.33%
Na: 1.88%
Other: 4.81%
ExH: 6.15%

Boron: 0.93 ppm
Iron: 185 ppm
Manganese: 16 ppm
Copper: 1.58 ppm
Zinc: 6.95 ppm
Aluminum: 193 ppm
Cobalt: 0.109 ppm
Molybdenum: 0.28 ppm
Ammonium: 16.2 ppm
Nitrate: 9 ppm
Selenium: 0.31 ppm
Silicon: 10.8 ppm
ENR: 130 lbs N per acre
EC: 1.35 mmhos/cm
M Density: 0.31 grams / cubic cm


vLightAlpha SATURATED PASTE TEST
pH: 6.6
Soluble Salts: 1,023 ppm
Cl: 58 ppm
Bicarbonate: 139 ppm
Sulfur: 101 ppm
Phosphorus: 0.79 ppm
Calcium: 214.20 ppm (67.00%)
Magnesium: 39.04 ppm (20.35%)
Potassium: 52.25 ppm (8.49%)
Sodium: 15.29 ppm (4.16%)
Boron: 0.37 ppm
Iron: 0.38 ppm
Manganese: 0.7 ppm
Copper: <0.02 ppm
Zinc: 0.02 ppm
Aluminum: 0.41 ppm


-Nitrate is low, but I will test again next week to see where the Nitrate level is four weeks after mixing. Ammonium is still showing up in significant amounts on the test which means the mix was still “cooking” when I took the sample.

-This “light mix” should contain 40% less N from inputs compared to vBeta (which tested at 350 ppm Nitrate). 60% of 350 would be 210 ppm and I would be OK with that. The crop advisor predicts it will be much lower based on the above Ammonium and Nitrate levels. Time will tell. I just want to avoid the excess Nitrate that showed up in vBeta. I'm aslo a bit confused. I thought he told me he wanted 150 ppm Nitrate, but on a podcast he said 150lbs per acre (75 ppm). Hmmm? I'll have to get some resolution to that.

-I was surprised that even with more peat and less Oystershell / Wollastonite, the pH stayed around the same as previous versions.

vLightAlpha SOIL AUDIT
(Summary)

-Primary focus should be to increase Potassium levels during flower (but I want this to be a veg mix)
-Phosphorus can be increased.
-Nitrogen is low, but should be able keep plants happy for multiple weeks
-I increased trace amounts per the previous audit

I will add Potassium Sulfate, SRP, and High P Guano to boost P and K. The crop advisor likes to use bone meal for P, but I’m trying to study the Nitrate and my bone meal options have 4 to 6% N. The guano’s N in NPK is zero and the guano has more Ca than the bone meal does. I’d prefer to see the Ca number go up over getting hit with 300 ppm Nitrate by surprise.

I added guano (0-7-0), soft rock phosphate, and potassium sulfate and amended the recipe below.
I’m trying to get to ~10% K on the saturated paste test and also increase soluble Phosphorus. I have not added any Nitrogen yet.

vLightBeta RECIPE
(per cubic yard of media)
* % of amendment used compared to vBeta Recipe.

2.75 lbs Seed Meal (6-1-2) *55%
0.55 lbs Seed Meal (6-2-1) *55%
1.25 lbs Kelp Meal (kelp4less) *50%
3.75 lbs Alfalfa Meal (2-1-2) *50%
0.72 lbs Crab Meal (4-3-0) *58%
0.55 lb Granular Poultry Manure (5-3-2) *55%
0.84 lbs Malted Barley Flour -67%
0.63 lbs Blood Meal (12-0-0) -50%
0.78 lbs Bone Meal (6-8-0) -63%
3.35 lbs Bone Meal (4-12-0) -67%
8.5 lbs High P Guano (0-7-0)
*(Can substitute 5.4 lbs 0-11-0 Guano, I just used what I had)
7 lbs Soft Rock Phosphate -67%
0.68 lbs Potassium Sulfate (0-0-54) *87%
3 lbs Azomite *60%
1.38 lbs Glacier Rock Dust *55%
10.05 lbs Basalt Dust *67%
9.2 lbs Solution Grade Gypsum *59%
2.88 lbs Oyster Shell Powder *58%
2.88 lbs Wollastonite W30 *58%
32 grams Bio-Ag Ful-Humix *100%
12 grams Bio-Ag TM-7 *100%
20 grams Iron Sulfate
15 grams Manganese Sulfate *103%
5 grams Borax *119%
7.5 grams Zinc Sulfate *156%
10 grams Copper Sulfate*154%


Next week will be 4 weeks after initial mixing. I’ll test to see if the Nitrate is still showing low. Will add some Seed Meal as needed.
Hoping K and P have increased some. Hoping pH, Ca, Mg, Na, and the traces stay about where they are.

-In the future I will update with these results

-Plus a retest of the Flowering vBeta mix (the sample that tested really high for N).
After my first audit, I mixed up another 20 gallons or so because I needed to fill up (3) 15 gallon pots. I'm going to mix these two batches together and test. 60% will have cooked for a few months, 40% will have cooked for 4 weeks. These will have added P and K based on the last audit of the flowering mix.

-The conclusion will come in about 5 weeks when I get test results from a series of samples I just mixed. The samples contain the Flowering Mix with varying amounts Seed Meal (0-9lbs), 0-7-0 Guano (4-6lbs), and Potassium Sulfate (0.5 -2.0 lbs). Hoping to get enough data points to start to draw some meaningful conclusions comparing lbs of inputs to lab tested levels.

-I doubt anybody is following close enough to recognize that the guano in the veg recipe is almost double the flowering recipe. This is because the amounts of other P inputs was lower in the veg mix compared to the flower mix.


Keep it Growin,
Bob
:puff puff:

"A Bridge Too Far." Caine and Hackman in the Same movie. This is my thesis man! This is my closing argument. -PCU
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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by WhatAboutBob »

VEG-ENSTEIN RECIPE

2.75 lbs Seed Meal (6-1-2)
0.55 lbs Seed Meal (6-2-1)
1.25 lbs Kelp Meal (kelp4less)
3.75 lbs Alfalfa Meal (2-1-2)
0.72 lbs Crab Meal (4-3-0)
0.55 lb Granular Poultry Manure (5-3-2)
0.84 lbs Malted Barley Flour
0.63 lbs Blood Meal (12-0-0)
0.78 lbs Bone Meal (6-8-0)
3.35 lbs Bone Meal (4-12-0)
8.5 lbs High P Guano (0-7-0)
7 lbs Soft Rock Phosphate
0.68 lbs Potassium Sulfate (0-0-54)
3 lbs Azomite
1.38 lbs Glacier Rock Dust
10.05 lbs Basalt Dust
9.2 lbs Gypsum
2.88 lbs Oyster Shell Powder
2.88 lbs Wollastonite W30
32 grams Bio-Ag Ful-Humix
12 grams Bio-Ag TM-7
20 grams Iron Sulfate
15 grams Manganese Sulfate
5 grams Borax
7.5 grams Zinc Sulfate
10 grams Copper Sulfate

VEG MIX STANDARD SOIL TEST RESULTS

TEC (M.E): 18.09
pH: 6.3
Organic Matter 26.91%
Sulfur: 692 ppm
P2O5 (M-3): 554 lbs/acre
Ca: 5246 lbs/acre
Mg: 276 lbs/acre
K: 631 lbs/acre
Na: 89 lbs/acre

% Base Saturation
Ca: 72.50%
Mg: 6.36%
K: 4.47%
Na: 1.07%
Other: 5.10%
ExH: 10.50%

Boron: 0.79 ppm
Iron: 148 ppm
Manganese: 12 ppm
Copper: 3.48 ppm
Zinc: 6.11 ppm
Aluminum: 148 ppm
Cobalt: 0.105 ppm
Molybdenum: <0.02 ppm
Ammonium: 0.9 ppm
Nitrate: 88.6 ppm
Selenium: <0.02 ppm
Silicon: 4 ppm
ENR: 130 lbs N per acre
EC: 0.91 mmhos/cm
M Density: 0.29 grams / cubic cm


VEG MIX SATURATED PASTE TEST

pH: 6.3
Soluble Salts: 1147 ppm
Cl: 68 ppm
Bicarbonate: 70 ppm
Sulfur: 81.83 ppm
Phosphorus: 0.99 ppm
Calcium: 238.90 ppm (66.63%)
Magnesium: 41.92 ppm (19.49%)
Potassium: 70.86 ppm (10.27%)
Sodium: 14.93 ppm (3.62%)
Boron: 0.36 ppm
Iron: 0.49 ppm
Manganese: 0.08 ppm
Copper: <0.02 ppm
Zinc: 0.03 ppm
Aluminum: 0.31 ppm

This was initially mixed 4 weeks before the sample was taken. Some K sulfate, soft rock phosphate, and guano was added a few weeks after the initial mix was made, but all the N was added at the start.

This is the same soil that previously tested (1 week after mixing) at 16.2 ppm Ammonium and 9 ppm Nitrate. Now that it had cooked a bit longer the Ammonium is down below 1 ppm and Nitrate is up to 88.6 ppm. The Soil Doctor recommended to keep Nitrate under a maximum of 150ppm. Manganese in the saturated paste fell to about 1/10 what it previously tested at. pH previously tested at 6.6 but now down to 6.3 on the most recent test.

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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by ncrypta.core »

Welcome man, this post was an really interesting read. I think my next run might have to soil test it now. 😊😊

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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by WhatAboutBob »

BLOOM-ENSTEIN RECIPE

5 lbs Seed Meal (6-1-2)
1 lbs Seed Meal (6-2-1)
2.5 lbs Kelp Meal (Kelp4Less)
7.5 lbs Alfalfa Meal (2-1-2)
1.25 lbs Crab Meal (4-3-0)
1 lb Granular Poultry Manure (5-3-2)
1.25 lbs Malted Barley Flour
1.25 lbs Blood Meal (12-0-0)
1.25 lbs Bone Meal (6-8-0)
5.00 lbs Bone Meal (4-12-0)
4.00 lbs High P Guano (0-7-0)
9 lbs Soft Rock Phosphate
1.45 lbs Potassium Sulfate (0-0-54)
5 lbs Azomite
2.5 lbs Glacier Rock Dust
15 lbs Basalt Dust
15.5 lbs Gypsum (Solution Grade)
5 lbs Oyster Shell Powder
5 lbs Wollastonite W30
32 grams Bio-Ag Ful-Humix
12 grams Bio-Ag TM-7
20 grams Iron Sulfate
15 grams Manganese Sulfate
5 grams Borax
7.5 grams Zinc Sulfate
10 grams Copper Sulfate

50% of the sample was allowed to cook for 8 weeks. 50% of the sample cooked for 4 weeks. Some of the P and K inputs were added a later time.

BLOOM MIX STANDARD SOIL TEST RESULTS

TEC (M.E): 30.73
pH: 6.9
Organic Matter 16.94%
Sulfur: 1524 ppm
P2O5 (M-3): 889 lbs/acre
Ca: 9942 lbs/acre
Mg: 499 lbs/acre
K: 1205 lbs/acre
Na: 187 lbs/acre

% Base Saturation
Ca: 80.89%
Mg: 6.77%
K: 5.03%
Na: 1.32%
Other: 4.50%
ExH: 1.50%

Boron: 0.70 ppm
Iron: 215 ppm
Manganese: 15 ppm
Copper: 4.8 ppm
Zinc: 10.19 ppm
Aluminum: 183 ppm
Cobalt: 0.121 ppm
Molybdenum: 0.65 ppm
Ammonium: 0.9 ppm
Nitrate: 153.2 ppm
Selenium: <0.02 ppm
Silicon: 4.5 ppm
ENR: 128 lbs N per acre
EC: 1.48 mmhos/cm
M Density: 0.37 grams / cubic cm


BLOOM MIX SATURATED PASTE TEST

pH: 6.9
Soluble Salts: 1408 ppm
Cl: 113 ppm
Bicarbonate: 81 ppm
Sulfur: 78.03 ppm
Phosphorus: 0.88 ppm
Calcium: 272.40 ppm (61.93%)
Magnesium: 53.35 ppm (20.21%)
Potassium: 108.50 ppm (12.81%)
Sodium: 14.93 ppm (3.62%)
Boron: 0.36 ppm
Iron: 0.49 ppm
Manganese: 0.08 ppm
Copper: <0.02 ppm
Zinc: 0.03 ppm
Aluminum: 0.31 ppm

Nitrate is back down to an acceptable level. The Soil Doctor had mentioned a max Nitrate level of 150 ppm. I think it may have been a mixing / sampling issue with the 357 ppm result last time. Maybe a whole hunk of chicken poopie made it into the sample. I dunno.
Same with Calcium and Exchange Capacity. They were very high last time (High Exchange Capacity because of the High Ca), but fell back down to earth on this most recent test. Maybe a clump of some gypsum or wollastonite did not get mixed properly and found its way into the few ml of sample that the lab actually tested.

I did not get soil audits for these tests. The following is based off of previous consultations I had.

-ph is 6.9 (up from 6.5) which is fine, but a little higher than I wanted. I might use a bit less Oyster Shell Powder in the future. The veg mix tested at 6.3 which is right about where I want it.

-EC is 1.48 for flower and 0.91 for veg. I don't really have an opinion about these numbers. If you do, let me know what you are thinking. I will be in 15 gallon final pots and plan to be in them for about 11-12 weeks.

-Soluble Salts are 1408 ppm in flower and 1147 ppm in veg. Same with EC - I don't know what to think of these numbers. I think as long as the balance is good, it will be fine.

-Nitrate is 153 ppm (down from 357 ppm). This is the max the Soil Doctor recommended. My veg mix has about 60% of the total N inputs. The lab testing showed 89 ppm Nitrate on the Veg compared to 153 ppm on the Flower. 58%. Boom.

-Phosphorous increased a bit, but still less than 1 ppm in solution. It is OK, but we want that up near 4 ppm. Might have to try some phosphate solubilizing bacteria. This should increase with time as the SRP and bone meal break down. Once I add plants and inoculate the soil, I suspect the soluble P will increase. [crosses fingers and follows with huge bong rip].
Interesting to see that the veg sample (with less total P) has more soluble P on the saturated paste test (0.99 ppm vs 0.88 ppm). The veg sample has about twice as much 0-7-0 guano. The difference is not much on the sat. paste test (maybe not even significant at all), but it might indicate that the P from the guano finds its way into solution easier than P for bone meal. Or it could just be another mixing/sampling/testing issue.

-Potassium is still a little low. Only 12% base saturation on the saturated paste instead of the 15-20% I want for flower. This should be fine as I will veg in the flower mix for a few weeks before flipping the lights. I can top dress more potassium as I flip to flower. Keeping potassium "lower" during veg is important to keep Calcium uptake strong. 10% potassium base saturation on the saturated paste is right where I want it for veg.

-Calcium is good for both veg and flower. 60% on saturated paste base saturation is a good target.

- Magnesium is 20% on the saturated paste which is a little bit high compared to what the Soil Doctor wants. I don't know where it is coming from. Maybe the castings? I think there may be some Mg in peat moss? If you have ideas, let me know. Hopefully the plats will mine that Mg to a lower number for the following run.

-Sodium is low. This is great.

-Sulfur is around 80 ppm on both the veg and flower samples. This is fine. Perhaps a bit higher than ideal and comes from the gypsum. But cannabis does well with elevated sulfur.

-Traces are good. Manganese might need to come up a bit. It is 5x lower than it previously tested on the saturated paste. The veg mix shows almost a 10x reduction of Mn in the solution. I might add some sodium molybdate. It didn't show up at all in the veg mix at all this time. Sellenium disappeared on both samples. Mixing? Biology? Aliens?

___________________________________________________________________________________________-

I finally have some soil that I feel confident enough to use. It will be interesting to see how the plants do in this soil compared to how the same cultivar did in my current soil. Will all this be worth it? Will the plants be healthier? Will the smoke be better?

I also have some samples still cooking that will be tested in a few weeks. These samples have various amounts of N, P, and K. It will be a good wrap up to my little soil science project and hopefully I'll be able to draw some meaningful conclusions comparing lbs of inputs to levels reported on lab tests.

Cheers,
Bob
:puff puff:

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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by WhatAboutBob »

Thanks. This has been fun for me. "WeedNerd4Life" LOL
I really enjoy this type of hands on learning.
I feel all this has learned me a thing or two and hopefully someone else learned something too.

Now armed to the teeth with soil tests, I'm ready to tackle my next grow. :ak:

I'm hoping I will be better at identifying issues correctly and knowing how to correct them.
ncrypta.core wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:50 am
Welcome man, this post was an really interesting read. I think my next run might have to soil test it now. 😊😊
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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by WhatAboutBob »

Sorry this is what happens when you copy and paste from the veg mix and don't update all the fields with the bloom numbers.

*Bloom Sat Paste


pH: 6.9
Soluble Salts: 1408 ppm
Cl: 113 ppm
Bicarbonate: 81 ppm
Sulfur: 78.03 ppm
Phosphorus: 0.88 ppm
Calcium: 272.40 ppm (61.93%)
Magnesium: 53.35 ppm (20.21%)
Potassium: 108.50 ppm (12.81%)
Na 25.52 ppm (5.04%)
B 0.18 ppm
Fe 0.45 ppm
Mn 0.05 ppm
Cu <0.02 ppm
Zn 0.02 ppm
Al 0.26 ppm

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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by WhatAboutBob »

Scott from The Crescive Method shared some math from the book Ideal Soil 2.0. It uses the bulk density of the media instead of the standard 2,000,000 lbs per acre furrow slice that is used in field calculations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUZzYwV5weA&t=897s

I have not tested the accuracy of this, but have used it for some trace mineral applications. I can go back and see how if the test data shows what the calculations say they should. For example, comparing K levels before and after a K sulfate addition. And for what it is worth, the Soil Doctor said he doesn't really use the bulk density in his calculations.

Media Density (or bulk density) is reported as grams / cubic cm
We want to convert that to kilograms / cubic yard

((Media Density * 764,555) / 454) / 2.2

764,555 cubic cm per cubic yard
454 grams per pound
2.2 pounds per kilogram

If media density is 0.30 grams per cubic cm

((0.30 * 764,555) / 454) / 2.2 =
(229,366.5 / 454) / 2.2 =
505.2 / 2.2 =
229.64 kilograms per cubic yard
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now for an application...

Goal to increase Ca by 100 ppm using Oyster Shell

Remember that 1ppm = 0.001g/kg

(100ppm / 1000) * 229.64 kg/yd^3
0.1 * 229.64 =
22.96 grams of elemental Calcium should be added per cubic yard to increase Ca by 100 ppm

Oyster Shell is 36% Calcium by weight
22.96 / 0.36 =
63.78 grams of Oyster Shell should be added per cubic yard to increase the Ca by 100 ppm

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Now lets try to increase Boron by 1.5 ppm using Borax (asssume 10% Boron in Borax for this calc)

(1.5 / 1000) * 229.64 =
0.34 grams of elemental Boron per cubic yard

0.34 / 0.10 =
3.44 grams of Borax (10%) should be added per cubic yard to increase Boron by 1.5 ppm

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Increase Mn by 8 ppm using Manganese Sufate (32% Mn)

(8 / 1000) * 229.64 =
1.83 grams of elemental Manganese per cubic yard

1.83 / 0.32 = 5.74 grams of Manganese Sulfate (32%) should be added per cubic yard to increase Mn by 8 ppm

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Happy Gardening.
Bob

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Re: Frankenstein-19 Water Only Organic Super Soil Recipe

Post by WhatAboutBob »

I'm about to plant into the VEG MIX. I wanted to bump the trace minerals a bit before I do so. I actually DO use the math above for these trace applications (even though I'm not sure the accuracy as shown on a soil test).

Fe was about 150ppm and almost 0.5ppm in solution. I was OK with that.
Mn was down to 12 pmm and only 0.08 ppm in solution. I want to increase this. The last test showed 0.7 ppm in the soil solution.
Boron was below 1 ppm and 0.36 ppm in solution. I want to increase this a bit. I have a lot of Ca, so I don't want to be too low on Boron.
Zn was only 6 ppm and barely shows up in solution. I want to increase this on the standard test. Was told Zn always reads low in the soil solution.
Cu was 3.5 ppm and barely shows up in solution. I want to increase this a bit on the standard test. Was told Cu also always reads low in the soil solution.

Using the math above.
0.29 media density.
0.29 * 764.555 = 222 kg/yd^3
___________________________________________________________________________________
Increase Boron 1.35 ppm on standard test
(1.35 / 1000) * 222 = 0.3 grams of elemental Boron per yd^3
I use 11.5% Boron for my Borax product.
0.3 / 0.115 = 2.6 grams BORAX per cubic yard
2.6 / 202.5 = 0.013 grams BORAX per gallon

I was only amending 9 gallons of soil, so I only needed to add about 0.12 grams of BORAX.
My scale only works accurately to about 0.6 grams.
So I dissolved 0.6 grams of BORAX in 10 oz of RO water.
2 oz of this solution contains 0.12 grams of BORAX and was added to a spray tank.

____________________________________________________________________________________
Increase Manganese 10 ppm.
(10 / 1000 ) * 222 = 2.22 grams of elemental Manganese per yd^3
I use 32% Mn for my Mn Sulfate product.
2.37 / 0.32 = 6.94 grams Manganese Sulfate per cubic yard
0.034 grams Manganese Sulfate per gallon.

0.3 grams Manganese Sulfate to amend 9 gallons of media (to raise 10.67 ppm)
I dissolved 0.6 grams of Mn Sulfate in 4 oz of RO water.
2 oz of this solution contains 0.3 grams of Manganese Sulfate and was added to the spray tank.

____________________________________________________________________________________
Increase Zn by 4.3 ppm.
(4.3 / 1000) * 222 = 0.955 grams of elemental Zinc per yd^3
I use 35.5% Zn for my Zinc Sulfate product
0.955 / 0.355 = 2.7 grams Zinc Sulfate per cubic yard
0.0133 grams Zinc Sulfate per gallon

0.12 grams of Zinc Sulfate to amend 9 gallons of media (to raise 4.3 ppm)
I dissolved 0.6 grams of Zinc Sulfate in 10 oz of RO water.
2 oz of this solution contains 0.12 grams Zinc Sulfate and was added to the spray tank.

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Increase Cu by 1.5 ppm.
(1.5 / 1000) * 222 = 0.333 grams of elemental Copper per yd^3
I use 25% Cu for my Copper Sulfate product
0.333 / 0.25 = 1.33 grams of Copper Sulfate per cubic yard
0.0066 grams of Copper Sulfate per gallon

0.06 grams of Copper Sulfate to amend 9 gallons of media (to raise 1.5 ppm)
I dissolved 0.6 grams of Copper Sulfate in 10 oz of RO water.
1 oz of this solution contains 0.06 grams of Copper Sulfate and was added to the spray tank.

____________________________________________________________________________________

The 7oz of trace minerals solutions were added to a spray tank with an additional 9oz of RO water. The tank's entire content was sprayed onto the soil for even distribution and then tilled in by hand.
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